CutCodeDown
From CutCodeDown => Drive-By's => Topic started by: Jason Knight on 19 Apr 2020, 09:13:18 pm
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What did you DISLIKE the most about the tutorial or book you were following? I'm looking for things to avoid as I'm going to be writing up a HTML tutorial for this site with a full and proper focus on "Say what things are, NOT what they look like".
HTML is so simple, I'm often shocked at how hard it is for some people to learn. I mean, sure if English isn't your native language, then fine.... but for Yanks and Brits alike it's as if everyone failed their fifth grade English classes.
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Personally, I have NEVER found a 'tutorial' that was worth the powder to blow it to hell.
I prefer a 'language reference' guide defining commands, etc. along with PERTINENT examples of how the command is SUPPOSED to be used and HOW to use it. Most language references revel in making simple things complex as well as having a paucity of examples. When they do include examples, it seems that they make them as complex as possible OR they include so few that it is often impossible to apply them to the problem at hand.
Further most gotchas are not even noted. I just went through a gotcha in FoxPro that was driving me crazy until I accidentally found the solution while looking for something else.
Here is the FP example:
z = 'ABCDEF'
y = SUBSTR(z, 7, 1)
With SET TALK ON it throws the error 'beyond string'
With SET TALK OFF it returns an empty string
Someone dropped the ball there as it should be one way or the other, not both. Needless to say, I immediately added that gotcha to my notes on FoxPro commands.
Bottom line, if you know a gotcha, BE SURE TO INCLUDE IT and, if known, HOW to work around it.
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This is something you should be good at Jason as you like calling a spade a spade - and I like your no nonsense approach. So keeping it short and to the point?
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@mmerlin, good point with the "gotcha's" . HTML by itself doesn't have many obvious ones, but there are common mistakes and omissions that are commonplace just from a lack of understanding.
A lot of these aren't obvious because "normal people" don't use non-visual UA's. See how folks don't use numbered headings properly, or think the only tags that go inside a TABLE are TR and TD... or the general lack of understanding what FIELDSET and LABEL are for.
But those aren't going to blow up in your face in terms of "normal" users. They just flip the bird at usability and accessibility. The only major hiccup I can think of is how I keep seeing people putting their charset META after content-bearing tags like other META or TITLE... a complete failure to understand what the tag is for and how browsers are supposed to treat it. Even there all that does is force the browser to start over from the top on parsing the page.
It's only once you get into building with CSS that things tend to go pear-shaped. Issues like some older versions of IE and FF screwing up positioning if comments (yes, the things that should be ignored) are placed between sibling-level elements; or the oft unwanted gaps between display:inline elements,.. but these things should have little to do with the basics and choices made in choosing tags.
@GrumpyYoungMan -- some parts are likely to be short, others not so much. One thing I've noticed -- I've been researching other guides -- is how convoluted they all get in terms of explaining the GRAMMAR of HTML, something that shouldn't even take a screen-height or two worth of text that they break up into 12 pages of four 1080p screen-heights each. That type of nonsense needs a trim.
I've had a few false starts already on this -- hence my looking for ideas -- where it keeps turning into a reference. I think this is because like @mmerlin I prefer a decent reference with actual examples over tutorials. But that's me, and I know after trying to teach others in the past that doesn't float for Joe Sixpack and Susie Sunshine. It's like how because I had been programming for nearly 25 years BEFORE I learned JavaScript, I was able to pick up the language faster and better than most using nothing more than one of the old pocket references.
Oh how I wish MDN's reference had been around when I was learning JavaScript.
But overall I do want to keep it relatively short -- around the same size as my "progressive enhancement" article. Five pages of what I consider medium length. I want to explain the basics and instill good practices, not get bogged down in the nitty gritty of each and every tag... though I'm afraid it might come down to that. It's bad enough I'm going to HAVE to waste four to six paragraphs explaining to people what a paragraph is! An image is not a paragraph. An INPUT and LABEL are not a paragraph. The contents of a TD are not a huffing paragraph!
Maybe just a mini-reference? Tag Name, operational level (inline, block), valid parents, valid children, valid attributes, one or two paragraph explaining its purpose, examples?
Anyhow, this is still off on the horizon, I NEED to get the website for Elementals 4 completed in terms of content. Site design and Elementals 4 itself has been done since October. I only just polished off the reference last week for everything but the newest iteration of DOM-JON, but I need to write up and explanation of how "views" are implemented (yes, it has views) as well as examples since E4 is a radical departure from E3, bringing it back to my original intent as I kicked all the bad advice and worse code previous "collaborators" suckered me into. This version needed to stay pure and stay strong.
Still, I might post some drafts for review as I go.
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I would like to see the focus be on Accessibility. As you said, HTML is simple, but most people don't know a lick about Accessibility.
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Accessibility is a semi-good topic, but would be an inherent part of "using HTML properly".
But that's REALLY the problem. The vast majority of people aren't... not even close. As evidenced by the train wrecks of 3i that are HTML/CSS "frameworks" that dial everything back to the worst of browser-wars era practices... created by people who never pulled their craniums out of 1997's rectum, and are CLEARLY unqualified to even flap their damned yap on the TOPIC of building websites.
Semantic markup and logical document structure, and the HTML side of accessibility will look after itself.
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Mixing content with presentation and inline programming (PHP and Javascript) and not specifying what HTML tags are designed to mean.
Even after reading and praising CutCodeDown I did my first take on Javascript programming using bad practices without thinking twice... people like me are somewhat hardcoded due to reading bad tutorials and following bad examples.
This industry is so full of bullshit that it's nearly mission impossible for a rookie to learn how to program a website in a sane way from zero... at least we have this gem resource to learn in a proper way.
Although not strictly related to HTML, I find difficult to program a website in PHP without having to continuously refactor the code until it turns into an unmaintainable mess. What I have learned is: first, define the data structures with future growth in mind and focus on a well defined topic.
It would be nice to have a big picture of how a website works, and how to build it in a way that it's maintainable.
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Although not strictly related to HTML, I find difficult to program a website in PHP without having to continuously refactor the code until it turns into an unmaintainable mess. What I have learned is: first, define the data structures with future growth in mind and focus on a well defined topic.
To avoid unmaintainable messes, I learned decades ago to make everything modular. Build it, test it, then use it forever without needing further tweeking. Not only is a program less likely to break, but it is often faster because there is less code to read.
Years ago I obtained some programs because I did not know how (at the time) to write the programs I needed. Those programs were full of spaghetti code. I wound up re-writing them (and learning how they worked) in a modular fashion. When done, they were 90% shorter (one went from 3000 bytes to 250 bytes), they ran faster, they had more options to do more jobs, and they never crashed again. At the time I was using "state of the art" Apple II+ with 16k RAM, so size and speed were extremely important factors.
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@Jason Knight,
Please write for an international audience especially for users whose native language is not English and not for just Yanks... who understand all about flying fish and purple unicorns.
I really like PHP's documentation, easy lookup for a detailed single item, examples, "See also" and "user notes."
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I can tell you what I'd like to see - examples converting bootstrap pages or blocks to minimal html and css (so that I can de-boostrap my site).
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Hi there AndrewTraub,
and a warm welcome to these forums. :)
The ideal way to treat Bootstrap coding is not by
attempted conversion but simply by total removal.
coothead
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Hi there AndrewTraub,
and a warm welcome to these forums. :)
The ideal way to treat Bootstrap coding is not by
attempted conversion but simply by total removal.
coothead
I fully agree, learn the raw (or is it “vanilla” ?) HTML and CSS and NOT a framework! Personally I wouldn’t want to rely on a 3rd party framework. :)
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Most of the tutorial tell me stuff but don't explain anything.
The most difficult thing is to find what you need, not to find what something you have does. This get more complicated because of, indeed, a foreign language and most of all because of lingo. There should be no lingo. https://withoutbullshit.com/ has a few articles on that.
Another thing I dislike is lack of proper useful yet minimal examples that actually run. Some context is always a nice to have. Then some slightly bigger examples to create insight; how to create a letter in HTML (and print it with proper css). A well structured multi page article.
Cheers.
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If language is a problem then maybe stick with learning the raw (vanilla) HTML/CSS as in my opinion these frameworks make it harder to understand, in my opinion
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If language is a problem then maybe stick with learning the raw (vanilla) HTML/CSS as in my opinion these frameworks make it harder to understand, in my opinion
Agree. Never understood why you would want to complicate matters. Seems a 'programmers thing', think build systems. Frameworks etc. also have a side effect. You ask, how do I do xyz in JavaScirpt and the answer you get is JQuery... The same is starting to happen in Python, you look for how to implement an algorithm and you get a NumPy function as answer. Learnt nothing. The best question I still encounter on fora etc. "how do I do this SQL in that ORM? Why use an ORM if you know SQL?
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My latest medium article touches on a lot of the problem.
https://medium.com/codex/the-biggest-problem-with-html-developers-developers-developers-f5aa177f0391
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Hi there Jason,
I have just popped my proboscis into your article and noticed these...
They all could give a flying purple fish what your page “looks like”.
....could give a burning blue fig leaf about accessibility....
You should change could to couldn't.
coothead
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Hi there Jason,
if you are interested, the basic form, without your personal decoration, would be...
not give a fig 8)
Source:-
Couldn't give a fig (https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/give+a+fig)
coothead
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Hi there Jason,
is there any particular reason for you not editing your latest medium article
other than a tendency to generally ignore me?
coothead
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Maybe he is just busy? Saw your comment and got distracted? Unless of course you know something I don’t Mr Coothead?
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Maybe he is just busy?
I don't know about busy, but I do notice him hanging around here...
codingforum.net (https://www.codingforum.net/member/418169-deathshadow)
...quite frequently.
Actually, I see that he is active there now as I type this little note to you. ;D
coothead
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Hi @coothead,
Most of Jason’s time is now spent on Facebook as Jason Knight.
What’s with the name change to @cothead or is your keyboard playing silly beggars? I prefer @coothead :)
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... is your keyboard playing silly beggars?
No, it's just old age and eyes taking their toll. :-\
cooooothead
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Most of Jason’s time is now spent on Facebook as Jason Knight.
Is that one of "John's Jokes"? :)
I always imagined that, like me, he would have avoided
that kind of social media site like the plague. ::)
toocheda
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Not one of my John’s-jokes.com, Jason posted five times on Facebook four days ago!
I get the impression he enjoys having a larger audience.
“toocheda”?
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Maybe he is just busy?
I don't know about busy, but I do notice him hanging around here...
codingforum.net (https://www.codingforum.net/member/418169-deathshadow)
...quite frequently.
Actually, I see that he is active there now as I type this little note to you. ;)
coothead
Oh that site is back up?
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Hi there Jason,
I know that you are going to ignore this, but it may be more appropriate
to employ a proctologist (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/proctologist) rather than an orthodontist for this problem...
...an official usage guide separate from the spec, for the sole purpose
of guiding those who basically still have their craniums wedged so far
up 1997’s rectum, we need an orthodontist to handle the extraction.
As per usual, there is no need to reply. ;D
coothead
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“toocheda”?
Looks to me like scrambled brain waves to the fingers. :)
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but it may be more appropriate
to employ a proctologist (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/proctologist) rather than an orthodontist for this problem...
Can't tell if you're joking, or failed to get the joke. As in "I'm gonna shove my size 9 so far up your backside you'll be flossing with my laces". You've made a few comments like that lately.
Aka what Mario did to Donkey Kong with a banana in "Racist Mario" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Wn48geCJ8)
Because yes, I most certainly DID mean a dentist. It's called a "through and through"
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Most of Jason’s time is now spent on Facebook as Jason Knight.
No more or less time than before. I've just been busy with finishing up a paying client, writing a proposal for another potential client, writing articles on medium since I'm making as much doing that as I do with my paying clients now (no joke)...
... and dealing with a new landlord who I suspect is trying to frustrate me into moving out. They're sketchy as hell, from out of state, and I'm almost certain they want to turn this into off campus housing.
Which is stupid since then it's empty half the year and they'll trash the place, whilst I've been here 10 years, never missed a rent payment (until last month because THEY F***ed with me), and never once been a problem. EVERYTHING about this new building owner is throwing up warning flags that it's time for me to consider moving.
But you know what they say, stupid is as stupid does.
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Can't tell if you're joking, or failed to get the joke.
I most certainly DID mean a dentist.
Be that as it may, but you have still not addressed the
genuine error pointed out with this...
Screen readers (software that reads the page aloud), Braille Readers, TTY…
all valid non-visual targets; and forget not: Search engines don’t have
eyeballs. They all could give a flying purple fish what your page “looks like”.
...and this..
The people saying this are almost always the “web application” and “single
page application” crowd who throw JavaScript at everything, could give a
burning blue fig leaf about accessibility...
Of course, your use of could instead of couldn't might be
another of your jokes that I've failed to comprehend. ::)
coothead
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Neither item actually exists, thus could is the correct word. You say couldn't when it's something that exists, or is an emotional state.
You couldn't give a damn, but you could give a flying f***.
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Neither item actually exists, thus could is the correct word.
Whatever.
As long as you are happy with it. I really couldn't give a fig. 8)
coothead
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Neither item actually exists, thus could is the correct word.
Whatever.
As long as you are happy with it. I really couldn't give a fig. 8)
coothead
Hi @coothead,
You’re wasting your time since even @Jason’s spelling leaves a lot to be desired :)
Unfortunately he prefers to profusely digress and vehemently chooses obscure local references in an endeavour to emphasise points.
It is actually a pity because he is quite bright but still insists on catering for an American audience that only forms about 20% of the global English speaking nations. I reckon his writing income would be more lucrative if he considered the other 80% :)
Another old Brit’
Edit:
This editor doesn’t play nicely with an iPad :)
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obscure local references
As if I'm supposed to magically know what's a local reference, what's global? Some sort of divine knowledge of what colloquialisms I know but others don't?
I gave up a long time ago on using a niggard hand with my language. It really started with the word "retarded" when the whack-a-doodle wife of a hobby store owner back in the mid '80's got their panties in a knot when I said it... referring to the bomb on the bottom of a plastic model of a F-4 Phantom II. I said "ooh this one has retards" and she lost her freaking mind screaming at me to get the **** out of the store. Thankfully her husband was a Vietnam vet who knew what a retarded bomb was.
Him: You're so ignorant sometimes. It's forward progress is slowed by fins that deploy, that's what retard means. To slow or hinder.
Her: Don't tell me what the word means, I'm an English teacher!
Me: Ayup...
I mean FFS, you folks across the pond don't even know the difference between Jello, Jelly, and Jam. And most Americans outside New England don't even know what "Across the pond" means..
You brits use terminology us Yanks don't know all the damned time, and you probably don't even realize it. What's the old joke?
Americans and the English, two people divided by a common language.
The laugh being I get flak from other Americans -- well, those outside New England -- for my use of Anglicisms. Colour instead of color, boot and bonnet instead of trunk and hood. Though I do favor truck over lorry,
Though it's real fun when you Brits don't even know British ones: Knackered, banjaxed, skint, gobsmacked, pear shaped...
Much less ones that are so commonplace in America we'd never even think don't exist abroad. I was shocked a few months ago to find out you folks don't even know what a wife-beater is. (it's a sleeveless undershirt). Or pacifier which apparently is called a dummy in the UK. Or pram / perambulator which 99.99% of Americans will have ZERO idea what you're talking about. (Baby carriage).
Happens be I sit in the middle between the two; we use terms from each that neither knows of the other. The whole could vs. couldn't thing, in America it's could. In England it's couldn't. In New England it's case by case. Something that exists or a verb it's couldn't, something that doesn't exist is could.
When people can sit around arguing the pedantic difference between normalcy and normality, expiration and expiry... I say screw it and use the language I speak the way I speak it. If that's a problem for someone from another region who will sit there like a crybaby going "what's that? I cant' read this" instead of picking up a flipping dictionary; or -- *SHOCK* opening a new tab to look it up online; or -- **DOUBLE SHOCK** attempt to infer meaning from context...
But it could be worse, at least you guys aren't assuming that every single word I use -- or reference that I make that you don't know -- is some form of profanity.
It's actually funny, I know a lot about the topic, which is why I realize that in an adoptive language it's utterly pointless to even TRY. It's a little like the "living document" bullshit with HTML 5. With no "version tracking" today's valid English is tomorrow's invalid (as in not valid, not as in a cripple, thanks Engrish) just as yesterday's valid English ain't today... or even yesterday's invalid being valid today. See "Ain't" which is now valid in most dictionaries.
Though that's when the pedants start screaming "just because it's in the dictionary doesn't make it valid". Treading into the same ground as the dipshit media who says we can't call Brock Turner a rapist because he wasn't convicted of Rape, he was convicted of "unlawful penetration with a foreign object".
Where if we look up rape in the dictionary:
"unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim."
But sure, can't ruin the college sports star's life for "20 minutes of action". For crying out loud, call a spade a spade.
And watch the "woke" idiots be their own worst enemy, digging themselves a nice deep hole of stupid getting upset thinking that shovels are racist.
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The whole could vs. couldn't thing, in America it's could. In England it's couldn't
So, are you inferring that our impasse on the use of could as opposed to couldn't
is simply related to figs, or does it have more worrying implications ? ???
coothead
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obscure local references[/font]
As if I'm supposed to magically know what's a local reference, what's global? Some sort of divine knowledge of what colloquialisms I know but others don't?
...
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The "obscure local references" I mentioned are both American. I believe baseball is only played America and also the American comedian reference:
1. Ballmer ==> He is the current owner of the Los Angeles Clippers of the National Basketball Association.Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer)
2. Rodney Dangerfield ==> American stand-up comedian, actor, producer, screenwriter, musician and author.
Your verbose reply included a reference to "Brock Turner" who is a complete stranger to me and no doubt also the other 80% of the global English speaking population :)
[off-topic]
Your latest Medium Article is a lot better :)
[/off-topic]
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I believe baseball is only played America
Cuba, Japan, Korea, Netherlands, Italy ... It may even have it's origin in the Dutch games Kastie and Slagbal.
Ingo
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1. Ballmer ==> He is the current owner of the Los Angeles Clippers of the National Basketball Association.Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ballmer)
Nobody gives a shit about his owning a baseball team. You skip right past the entire first sentence and why he's relevant. And I quote:
who served as the chief executive officer of Microsoft from 2000 to 2014.
Now, I don't know if you've heard of Microsoft, but they're a multinational corporation and Ballmer's behavior-- good and bad, mostly bad -- are infamous internationally amongst programmers.
His antics at Microsoft conferences being a thing of legend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I14b-C67EXY&t=46s
I was actually sitting here wondering whiskey tango foxtrot does "teh sportsball" have to do with anything.
2. Rodney Dangerfield ==> American stand-up comedian, actor, producer, screenwriter, musician and author.
Who's movies -- Caddyshack, Back To School, Easy Money, Meet Wally Sparks, etc, etc -- have had international releases. Caddyshack ALONE regardless of nationality should make at least the name familiar. It's like saying you don't know who Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry are. Or Stephen Chow... or Katrina Kaif.
Ok, most Americans might not now that last one, but Bollywood fans do. Internationally she's bigger than any of the rest I listed. Side note, Ranbi Kapoor is a dirtbag!
Your verbose reply included a reference to "Brock Turner" who is a complete stranger to me and no doubt also the other 80% of the global English speaking population :)
In the world of 24 hour international news, stop living under a rock. My Canadian friends know who he is... My Japanese friends know who he is.
Just because you live under a rock is no reason for the rest of us to "tone it down".
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I have no idea who Caddyshack or Brock Turner is... 🤦🏽♂️😂
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I have no idea who Caddyshack or Brock Turner is... 🤦🏽♂️😂
Caddyshack isn't a who, it's a what. A Movie. You've heard of these new-fangled things called "movies" right? Films? Theme song by Kenny Loggins. One of the best comedy movies ever made alongside the likes of Airplane and NL's Vacation? Ted Knight? Bill Murray? Chevy Chase?!?
Surely you can't be serious you've never heard of these things? That's a sad, sad, pathetic life.
Again, "Christ Tony, how old is this kid?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbQgaHZOFZ0
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2. Rodney Dangerfield ==> American stand-up comedian, actor, producer, screenwriter, musician and author.
Who's[sic] movies --Caddyshack, Back To School, Easy Money, Meet Wally Sparks, etc, etc -- have had international releases. Caddyshack ALONE regardless of nationality should make at least the name familiar. It's like saying you don't know who Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry are. Or Stephen Chow... or Katrina Kaif.
I have no idea who Caddyshack or Brock Turner is... %uD83E%uDD26%uD83C%uDFFD%u200D%u2642%uFE0F%uD83D%uDE02
Caddyshack isn't a who, it's a what. A Movie. You've heard of these new-fangled things called "movies" right? Films? Theme song by Kenny Loggins. One of the best comedy movies ever made alongside the likes of Airplane and NL's Vacation? Ted Knight? Bill Murray? Chevy Chase?!?
All of whom [sic] are complete strangers to me.
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...
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In the world of 24 hour international news, stop living under a rock. My Canadian friends know who he is... My Japanese friends know who he is.
Once again these are only two isolated cases used to bolster your opinion. Even if you get a much bigger soapbox and a megaphone these will not help the other 80% of global English speakers understand your rantings
Just because you live under a rock is no reason for the rest of us to "tone it down".
Perhaps, most unlike yourself... I have traveled, lived and worked in about three dozen countries and learnt that shouting only hinders others from understanding what you are trying to convey :)
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Once again these are only two isolated cases used to bolster your opinion. Even if you get a much bigger soapbox and a megaphone these will not help the other 80% of global English speakers understand your rantings
Got me on the anecdotal, but cancelled your argument by pulling a percentage out your arse.
Perhaps, most unlike yourself... I have traveled, lived and worked in about three dozen countries
Can't say I've done three dozen, but I've got South Korea, Germany, Britain, Saudi, Australia, and France under my belt.
Though given your lack of knowing cultural references common across all of the above, it makes me doubt you're as worldly as you claim. Either that or you just never once turned on a television set.
and learnt that shouting only hinders others from understanding what you are trying to convey :)
What shouting? Wait... do you also not know the term "tone it down" which has jack-all to do with volume level?
... and this is how we have people who think that Trump actually is a "really stable genius", despite his fourth grade vocabulary and 2nd grade intelligence.
Though I will freely admit that as an X-er, I talk with "pop-culture Tourette's". It's how my generation communicates; with movie quotes and jokes.
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All of whom [sic] are complete strangers to me.
So basically you don't watch TV or movies?
Good gravy, how can someone not know Rowan Atkinson... I mean at least "Mr. Bean" would stand out.
Sorry, but I'm not going to dumb it down for people who don't know mainstream pop culture jokes. What, do I have to drag out Jack Benny or Art Welling for you dinosaurs?
You guys would probably lose your huffing minds if I said "If my pussy doesn't see a friendly face tonight, it will be very put out."
Mr. Humphreys, are you free? Next you'll be telling me you don't know who Judy Dench is.
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All of whom [sic] are complete strangers to me.
So basically you don't watch TV or movies?
My family never had a TV when I was growing up. I have never owned a TV in my life. About the only time I watch TV is when I am in a motel which is extremely seldom.
I do not ever remember ever seeing anything worth watching, so do not miss it at all.
I seldom have ever seen any films either. And have no way to watch any even if I wanted to.
So, basically you can say I am "culturally" stunted and out of touch with all of the bullshit that is being poured into the heads of everyone else.
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@mmerlinn,
Your post has been stuck there for a couple of days... it reminds me sitting on the pavement/sidewalk and watching the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II on the only TV in the street.
I agree with your views about TV and also do not have one because I find watching is like "chewing gum for the brain" :)
I use my iPad to watch selected movies. I was once an avid biker and currently watching Apple's Free TV Channel series of Long Way Across, Long Way Down and Long Way Up because it reminds me of my Hippy Trail from UK to Kathmandu :)
Happy days :)
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.....it reminds me sitting on the pavement and watching the
Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II on the only TV in the street.
I missed that, as my dad was still in the process of constructing
our television set. My terminology may be incorrect but I believe
it used a war surplus cathode ray tube.
The first time that I saw it working was on boat race day. The
cathode ray tube had a magnifying glass in front of it and I had
to go under a black out curtain to see the picture. It obviously
needed some fine tuning as the image was upside down and
double decker buses going across the London bridges appeared
to be like caterpillars in their movement. I was mesmerised.
Unfortunately that did not last long, since that day television has
sunk to the depths and we now wallow in two hundred channels
of excrement.
coothead
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...it reminds me of my Hippy Trail from UK to Kathmandu :)
Happy days :)
The nearest I got to Kathmandu was reading...
Laurence Cherniak's
The Great Books of Hashish
Volume 1: Book 1
(http://www.thegreatbooksofhashish.com/images/bk1imgs/KissTshrtClrCrtdFb2011Nt.jpg)
How on earth did I end up at Sitepoint? ???
coothead