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Author Topic: Squire3 - Proposal  (Read 728 times)

John_Betong

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Squire3 - Proposal
« on: 28 Nov 2020, 12:23:43 am »

I think this project should be promoted and I am concerned it will fade into oblivion because It is difficult to enable others to contribute.

As much as @deathshadow has disdain for GitHub; it appears @benanamen and myself would like to create a GitHub Repository.

At the moment I have tried to keep track of changes:.

https://thisisatesttoseeifitworks.tk/

I would like suggestions as to how to move forward.
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2020, 12:50:45 am by John_Betong »
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benanamen

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #1 on: 28 Nov 2020, 01:07:26 am »
@deathshadow has disdain for GitHub

That is a shame isn't it? There are so many benefits and reasons to use Git.

I would like suggestions as to how to move sensibly forward.

Maybe if you ask him nice he might upload his code to GitHub so we have a single source of truth and can easily keep everyone in sync with the master version of Squire 3 and easily view his changes.

Depending on where he goes with this will determine if I keep the Squire 3 on my repo current. My Squire Rethink was just to show an alternative simplified architecture.

My initial goal was in the direction of the "To Route or Not to Route" discussion that got all this started. At some point I may post my class based framework-less  (No third party components) framework which I actually would recommend using. I Haven't decided if I want to opensource it or not.
To save time, let's just assume I am never wrong.

GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #2 on: 28 Nov 2020, 02:21:31 am »
Wouldn’t it better to let Jason to get the code base to a somewhere near near Alpha version?
Trying to learn a new trick to prove old dogs can learn new ones...

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John_Betong

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #3 on: 28 Nov 2020, 06:49:26 am »
@deathshadow,

Further to my previous post I would like to clarify a couple of points. First is I was hoping only your source code is uploaded and you have complete control by preventing others to update,  branch, etc.

README.md instructions on suggestions and improvements must all be made via this forum.

By following these simple guidelines; others would benefit  and this forum would also be promoted.
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GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #4 on: 28 Nov 2020, 07:04:47 am »
Is this project going to be free and open source?

What are Jason’s long term plans going to be with this project?
Trying to learn a new trick to prove old dogs can learn new ones...

Total Novice have-a go Amateur Programmer - not sure that is the right thing to say... but trying to learn...

benanamen

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #5 on: 28 Nov 2020, 12:48:49 pm »
Wouldn’t it better to let Jason to get the code base to a somewhere near near Alpha version?

I would say yes, except he has already "released" it and people are using it. A git repo would be helpful to track the changes as it goes along as well as many other benefits. Github has the issues board and ability to make an inline reference to the exact code point of discussion. There is also a built-in Wiki.

I would encourage Jason to use Github. All his stated objections to it are moot with him being in the drivers seat and controlling the repo. This project would be a good place for him to "rethink" git by actually actively using it.

When I "discovered" git and version control it forever changed my coding life.

Is this project going to be free and open source?

Yes, he has already stated as such. Here is yet another reason for the repo. He can add a README.md to the project that makes it clear it is opensource. As is, the question will keep getting asked as it already is because the answer is buried in the fluff of the threads. Sure he could add the README to his source, but the Repo would just provide all of us so much benefit.


@John_Betong, I really wish you would quit just standing there with your hands on your hips tapping your foot at me. All I hear in my head looking at your avatar is "Well?...Well?...Well? How bout it huh?" LOL!  ;D
To save time, let's just assume I am never wrong.

John_Betong

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #6 on: 28 Nov 2020, 10:42:36 pm »
@benanamen,
Quote
@John_Betong, I really wish you would quit just standing there with your hands on your hips tapping your foot at me. All I hear in my head looking at your avatar is "Well?...Well?...Well? How bout it huh?" LOL!  ;D


The avatar is both my mental and physical mentor that relentlessly drives me on by refusing to stop and preventing the inevitable decline :)
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mmerlinn

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #7 on: 29 Nov 2020, 01:02:13 am »


The avatar is both my mental and physical mentor that relentlessly drives me on by refusing to stop and preventing the inevitable decline :)

So, why did you stop tapping your foot?
The soul purr pus of a spell cheque cur is two valley date hour ignore ants.

Jason Knight

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #8 on: 29 Nov 2020, 03:10:31 am »
All his stated objections to it are moot with him being in the drivers seat and controlling the repo.
REally? The shit hard to use interface and constant dicking around because people aren't smart enough to say things like line number, filename, function, and ^C^V magically goes away?

It's a steaming pile of hard to use process slowing shit, that every time I've seen a client use it for web development it's f***ed them, and the two times I tried to use it for my own projects it set me back three months or more. Just like all the other halfwit "useful tools" that screw over my development process like autocomplete, tag completion, tabbed editors, "project management", built-in references, and the illegible acid-trip that is colour syntax highlighting.

THE F***WIT ASSHAT BULL that is Git is off the table. Full stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $1200 in "stimulus".

I will not use it, it offers me nothing I actually want or would use, and it would do nothing but make this entire process take longer and make it harder to develop. EVERY encounter I've ever had with that pile of trash has been a nightmare! Lands sake I just look at the repo's people already set up, and it's like WTF are you even doing there?!? You've turned it into an illegible broken mess of bizzaro cryptic named directories, files moved around for f*** only knows what, and in general seem to be wasting time on some goofy extra crap that just makes everything harder to do!

I don't git the point of git. It's just more bloated bull that gets in the way of actually writing code and *SHOCK* ACTUALLY talking to people about their problems. Hell if anything not using Git is a filter to keep people who have no business contributing OUT of the process!

I lack the words in polite company for my experiences with and opinion of Git, GitHub, or anything related to it. It's utter and total shite that screws over everything it touches that isn't what it was actually designed for -- the Linux kernel. And even now that seems to be sharting itself now that Linus has "stepped back" from the benevolent dictator role.

Also the sad fact I did absolutely nothing yesterday - at all... nothing, for anything, complete day off from the world - certainly not speeding things along either. I think that I started cooking on Wednesday and didn't finish cleaning until 10pm Friday caught up with me. Food coma likely not helping either.

Pushed my crippy arse too hard for three days straight, paid the price.
I'll fix every flaw, I'll break every law, I'll tear up the rulebook if that's what it takes. You will see, I will crush this cold machine.

Jason Knight

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #9 on: 29 Nov 2020, 03:46:51 am »
README.md instructions
Even though Aaron and I were close friends, I ****ing hate markdown too.
I'll fix every flaw, I'll break every law, I'll tear up the rulebook if that's what it takes. You will see, I will crush this cold machine.

John_Betong

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #10 on: 29 Nov 2020, 04:38:45 am »
@mmerlinn,
> So, why did you stop tapping your foot?

I don’t understand? The avatar foot is still tapping, I’m getting my daily exercise and striving to beat the inevitable decline
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John_Betong

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #11 on: 29 Nov 2020, 04:51:32 am »
@Jason Knight,
> REally? The shit hard to use interface and constant dicking around because people aren't smart enough to say things like line number, filename, function, and ^C^V magically goes away?

I think you are trying too hard. Uploading a repository is easy and updates are the following three lines:

git  add .  # add all changed files
git commit -m “message and or version “
git push # everything now up to date

User download all updated files and README.md

git clone https://github.com/John-Betong/jb-squire3


A zip file is also available for those who do not have Git installed.

As far as  Markdown is concerned then it is not necessary. Plain text,  HTML and other formats are available in the drop down list.


I believe there are graphical versions available for those that find typing a couple of command lines too difficult.

I’m pleased you enjoyed your day of rest and looking forward to the updates


« Last Edit: 29 Nov 2020, 04:55:41 am by John_Betong »
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mmerlinn

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #12 on: 29 Nov 2020, 05:37:39 am »
@mmerlinn,
> So, why did you stop tapping your foot?

I don’t understand? The avatar foot is still tapping, I’m getting my daily exercise and striving to beat the inevitable decline

Your foot tapping used to irritate me to no end, but for some reason your foot no longer taps. Oh, what a relief that is!!!
The soul purr pus of a spell cheque cur is two valley date hour ignore ants.

benanamen

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #13 on: 29 Nov 2020, 12:01:23 pm »
The shit hard to use interface

How exactly were you using it? I use a GUI app. It is no harder to use than Windows file explorer. If your comments are regarding using the command line, then I can see where you are coming from. A 5 year old could use a gui git app.

In a GUI app you can just drag the files from the uncommitted window to the staging window and then click the button that says push. See, not hard at all. There are free apps for both Windows and Linux. My IDE, PhpStorm has git built-in so I don't even need a third party app.

I am no git master and there are many things I don't know how to do with it, but committing and pushing changes and the very useful branching feature are super easy to use.

Do this a minute Jason; Go to my repo of your version of Squire 3 and tell me you cant easily see the exact changes you made after the first "release" when you fixed a few things. Click on the zip down load and tell me how hard it was to download a zip file of the code. You can change the "view" and download either version of the code that is there. Perhaps add your todo's as an issue and see how easy it will be for all of us to follow along instead of parsing through what is already a very large forum thread that will only get bigger. Right click on a line of code and tell me how hard it was to create an issue with a direct link to that exact spot in code.

Your "problem" with git is blinding you to many of the very simple benefits of using it. git does many many things and Github adds many, many things on top. You don't have to use all the hard stuff.
To save time, let's just assume I am never wrong.

Jason Knight

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Re: Squire3 - Proposal
« Reply #14 on: 29 Nov 2020, 07:40:25 pm »
Do this a minute Jason; Go to my repo of your version of Squire 3 and tell me you cant easily see the exact changes you made after the first "release" when you fixed a few things.
Actually I can't, because the UI for shithub is worse than most GUI wrappers for git. I can't find a damned thing in it as it's one of the most counterintuitive interfaces ever.

Again, I suspect the problem is much akin to my issue with RAD's. There's some sort of disconnect between my workflow and how I do things, and how it works.

And once I start setting milestones -- this code is FAR too "in flux" for that yet -- it's called "diff". You ever use "diff" or under DOS/Windows "fc"? If one REALLY needs that sort of thing there's gui tools for doing it too. NOT that it's something I usually if ever need or would want or have seen anyone have a need for at THIS stage of it. You actually have to finish writing the starting code before things like diff matters.

I'm also used to the "need" for tools like that indicating there's a problem with the entire development process.

Though I think that's a complexity mismatch between how you and I do things, and the complete misunderstanding of what you were even asking in the initial thread. I went back and re-read and I still don't get where at the start you said what you later explained; your "clear intent" as you said being utter murk for me.

The fact people are jumping the gun because they didn't understand what was Squire and what was not certainly not helping matters, much less usually when I use the part that's ACTUALLY squire it's customized or adjusted on a per client basis. (again why I uploaded that new standalone squire.lib.php to make it clear what is squire and what is not!)

It's almost like we're talking two different languages, but as I said before I think our entire process of doing things is 180 degrees from each-other. A LOT of what you've said and claimed is utter gibberish to me.

Click on the zip down load and tell me how hard it was to download a zip file of the code.
Was one of the first things I had to ASK how to do, because I couldn't flipping find it because a NEAR INVISIBLE white-on-green down arrow pointing at a line with the word "code" next to it doesn't make me think the download link is going to be in a dropdown.

One might think they were using the broken halfwit inaccessible trash framework known as "primer", which much like bootcrap and tailwind tells users like myself to go F*** ourselves with their nonexistent accessibility and usability.  It's very hard to be friendly to something that's tells me I don't count as a user on those grounds.

Right click on a line of code and tell me how hard it was to create an issue with a direct link to that exact spot in code.
You mean the broken shit "..." to the side where the menu is half off the blasted screen because they scripttarded it badly so it doesn't scale on large-font systems? Lemme guess, I'm supposed to set my 1440p display to 16px fonts and plaster my face 2" from it? F*** that.

Your "problem" with git is blinding you to many of the very simple benefits of using it.
Once again I feel like John Adams when Dickinson talked about the "benefits" of being part of England.

Quote
John Dickinson: For myself, I have no objection of all to being part of the greatest empire on Earth, to enjoying its protections and sharing its benefits.

John Adams: Benefits? What benefits? Crippling taxes? Cruel repressions? Abolished rights?

John Dickinson: Is that all England means to you, sir? Is that all the pride and affection you can muster for the nation that bore you?

"The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does.” -- Sydney J. Harris

As such when people talk about the "benefits of Git"?

Benefits? What benefits? Slowed development? Extra pointless time-wasting steps? Task complexity mismatch? Dicking around with crap that you really SHOULDN'T need in the first blasted place?!?
I'll fix every flaw, I'll break every law, I'll tear up the rulebook if that's what it takes. You will see, I will crush this cold machine.

 

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