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Author Topic: How did mailman ever manage to get off the ground  (Read 442 times)


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How did mailman ever manage to get off the ground
« on: 4 Dec 2019, 01:06:10 am »
I did post this over on the cPanel forum as well but i thought i would also get some feedback from here.

I am wondering how mailman a total hunk of junk IMO ever got off the ground in the first place.

I referred to it as hunk of junk because i just got done watching this video

in which the head developer of mailman is talking about version 3 and includes some discussion about previous versions as well. I understand this video is from 2013 however mailman has not changed much since then so it still applies.

In this video he discusses how the data in version 2 and before is placed in and out of pickle files and how that basically works. So my thought is, wait! the version i have is not even using a database that is nonsense IMO.

Then he discusses how passwords are sent through the mail in plain text. Once again im like what did he just say! Again im shocked! So a lead developer thinks its OK at any time to send plain text passwords through the mail, and he is still in the businness after freely admitting that... WOW!   He shrugs it off like its nothing.

Then he discusses how with version 3 how he basically used REST API to IMO hack (my word not his) things so that it would work the way he wanted it to.  Then he talks about not knowing how to write a admin UI and he is the head developer, wow, that is so sad!

Before even the end of the video i was asking myself "why would/does anyone even mess with this script?" I would not even wipe my feet on the code of version 1 or version2 for that matter because i would be afraid my feet would get corrupted. Yes version 3 has some big improvments but when the core of your project is still in the past how can anyone feel comfortable using this script for anything at all.

At this point i dont even like having it as part of cPanel and i wish i could remove it before i ever install cPanel on my new dedi server in feb 2020, its that bad folks IMO. And IMO mailman devs are still trying to build future versions on top of a foundation of a horrible script in the first place.

Maybe i dont understand all there is about mailman, and maybe i dont understand the benefits that exist to make using it beneficial at all to anyone. But from a programmers perspective IMO its garbage.

They took an original horribly designed script that was IMO only intended to temporarily solve a feature needed for mail lists, and rather than starting over when the time came, they just basically shot some grease in the squeaky parts and shipped it. Now with version 3 they are trying to create something for current day usage while still using the old horribly engineered and coded core. Makes no sense to me folks...

I had planned to use it rather than phpList is also has alot to be desired. But honestly after most of the day reading, learning and watching. I wont ever use mailman for anything in my life unless they just start over from scratch and do it right from the start.

I am sticking with phpList and glad to do so, it may not be that great but its far better than trashy mailman IMO.  Ill continue to look for something else of better quality in the mean time.

Squeeze it Harley! Don't yank it!  It's not your D...!  Squeeze it !

Jason Knight

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Re: How did mailman ever manage to get off the ground
« Reply #1 on: 4 Dec 2019, 10:31:27 am »
It's actually very simple. A nube needed something done, and came up with a way that works. It's not the best way of doing it, hell it's probably not even the right way. It's sure as shine-ola not a secure way... but it worked "well enough for today".

Triggering the survivorship fallacy and confirmation bias. Because it "got the job done well enough for now" it's assumed it's fine and dandy out of ignorance and wishful thinking. Then others start using it who don't know how bad it is. Again "for people who know nothing, BY people who know nothing".

Then the bald-faced lies of how "great" it is and "everyone is using it" comes in with the typical propaganda. Soon people are adding more code and functionality to it, without refactoring or fixing deep rooted flaws, then before long much of the new code actually RELIES on those flaws and nobody is willing to fix anything because it "breaks backwards compatibility".

Tale as old as time...

See bootstrap, jQuery, wordpress, phpBB, SMF, vBull, angular, react, vue, Laravel, Internet Explorer/Trident, Gecko/Firefox, and the Ice Capades.
« Last Edit: 4 Dec 2019, 10:33:01 am by Jason Knight »
I'll fix every flaw, I'll break every law, I'll tear up the rulebook if that's what it takes. You will see, I will crush this cold machine.


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