Man that is confusing - I think I should maybe give up and stick to my day job - but I am having fun learning - can you see the progress yet...!
I honestly thought that margin was outside the box and padding was inside... so negative margins must be even more confusing!
Thanks for the demo, that has made things a lot clearer - I appreciate that - the collapsing margins does also make sense now, I also guess that is why they also allow margin to have 2 values now... it's a shame they don't just have a value to turn it off...