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Author Topic: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree  (Read 257 times)

durangod

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SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« on: 15 Dec 2023, 11:53:43 pm »
DS and others - do you agree with my feedback here

Correction that link was to a member only section for logged in members.  But i posted the content below. 



« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2023, 07:00:23 pm by durangod »

coothead

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #1 on: 16 Dec 2023, 10:08:16 am »
Hi there durangod,

unfortunately, the link which you provided gave me this information...
Quote

Warning!

The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or
off limits to you.
Please login below or sign up for an account with Simple Machines
Community Forum

For those who may be put off by that, I bypassed that restriction and found
the information to which you presumably referred...
Quote

Sometimes we have something we need to add to all email that we send.
Such as if we use a noreply email we would like put something like this
on the bottom of each email.

Quote
"This is from a noreply email address. Please do not reply to this email
address. We do not monitor this email address inbox and your message
will not be seen and most likely will be deleted in time"
.

So i would like to see a feature (or a module) where we can add an email
footer to all emails at first, then if people need to select which email and
which footer text,  that can come later in another version update.


This would prevent (me) from having to edit all email templates


Note -  the (me) was added by me. 

coothead
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durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #2 on: 16 Dec 2023, 06:59:24 pm »
Hi coothead, i apologize i did not realize that section was a member logged in  section only.  My bad. 
Opps im too late its past edit time, could not add the "me" .

I also used protected class in the original of the next text rather than protected method, i was not able to correct the origional as its too late but i have correct that in this copied version.

What you posted was not the post lol  but i will make that correction and i appreciate that :)

Here is the post... so far...  i used the print option and then must copy pasted it.

Quote
Me...

Title: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: durangod on December 15, 2023, 10:10:13 PM
Hi, Well first of all relax i like the script. I like the admin config layout, the userside, and it scores high marks for me in support which is excellent.  So i will continue to use it.

Now with that, there are a few things that i found to be old school, and needs work.

1. First and foremost, get the sql queries out of the core files. All of those need to be in a in a protected method and then a request class needs to be created to get the data from the protected method.  Having queries in the core files is 2008 style coding and people just dont do that anymore and for good reason.   

The db requested data should flow this way.  File request -> public class method and that then calls the protected method query and then the data returns in the same path back to the file.  This provids much better db query protection than having queries in the core files.

Core file request ->  request public class -> protected method with queries  and returns the same direction.   In other words nothing has direct from core files to the db queries, it has to go through a request class and that request class is the only thing that has direct access to the db queries.

Its also so easy to fix, just change the db query in the file to a request function, then after it  it goes to the protected method, on the way back way back just return the data to the file, bingo same as it was but now you have a more protected db.

2. Too many orphaned elements with no class or id.  Almost everything needs to have some sort of class or id assigned to it, even <p>'s  because one never knows when someone may need to isolate things right down to the text.

3. Camelcase file names, IMO this is a bad habbit and something from the past.  Use a underscore for name separation.

4. Way too reliant on js. This causes undesired conflicts.

5. Not enough module coders and not enough modules available/updated to run on the current version.

All in all yes room for improvement but i think you have a really good thing going here and i will certainly continue using the script.

Nice work, look forward to the improvements.  :0

================================================
reply to me...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: [name removed for privacy] on December 15, 2023, 10:17:18 PM

1 is not as simple as you make it out to be... but 3.0 is a big change to how things are coded

Not sure I agree with 2...  but that's easy to solve  -- write your own theme and add all of that.  ;)

3 is personal preference...

5 well, we really have no control over that

==================================================

Me...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: durangod on December 15, 2023, 10:57:54 PM

Agreed and cant wait to see 3.0  but number 3 is more than just a preference.

Have you ever had two file names exactly the same name but one is camelcase and one is not.  We have to make sure that the file names are designed so that someone cannot spoof a file.

on my server php sees these two files as different

Admin.php
admin.php

however on some server configs php can see those two filenames as exactly the same. This is why camelcase names is a bad idea.  It should always be  admin.php or file_name.php  always lower case for more stablity.

=============================================
reply to me ...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: [name removed for privacy] on December 16, 2023, 02:24:02 AM

Linux is generally case sensitive, you can have both admin and Admin, but Windows is generally case insensitive and would indeed treat them as the same file - Which would mean that they would also be physically incapable of existing at the same time. So, I'm not sure I understand the problem. As long as there is consistency and logic to the naming, it's fine.

==================================================

me ...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: durangod on December 16, 2023, 03:52:40 AM

The traditonal usage more times than not across the board is name_name.ext with function names being functionName() or className being standards as well.  Sure php can handle camel case however why not just avoid any possible caveats down the road by sticking to a wider accepted practice.  :)

====================================================

reply to me...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: [name removed for privacy] on December 16, 2023, 06:14:48 PM
Quote from: durangod on Yesterday at 10:10:13 PM
3. Camelcase file names, IMO this is a bad habbit and something from the past.  Use a underscore for name separation.
but the user never requests those files, and the autoloading standard that is PSR-4 is at odds with your statement.

Quote from: durangod on Yesterday at 10:10:13 PM
4. Way too reliant on js. This causes undesired conflicts.
 
I dare you to turn off JS and load any page of SMF. Now try the same thing with Twitter and Youtube. Do they still load? Which site uses too much JavaScript and is therefore too brittle?

==========================================

me ...

Title: Re: Alittle feedback from a new user and a developer
Post by: durangod on December 16, 2023, 06:53:15 PM

The auto loader has caused more issues over time than i can count.  Yes i understand and agree with what you are saying. However, what i am talking about is common standard practices that the majority follows, and that is lowercase with underscore and camelcase functions and classes, not filenames.

I think you took this statement on a much grander scale that i meant it.  I never said that any site would load without js. Even my own project would not load without js.  Well mainly because i require it and if js is not enabled i tell them to turn it back on and i remove all the form buttons if they have it off.

Anyway my intention was to say that SMF relies on js too much. Too much js means that it uses js as the automatic go to when there are other ways of processing the same userside content. All this probably means is that the original author was very knowlegable in js and so that was their go to for much of the userside functionality.  That is not a negative and neigher was my original statement.  It was an observation from someone that has had to learn other ways becuase i honestly suck at js. I can do it but since i am not that affluent in the language i have had to learn other ways.

When i started my project one of the top 5 rules was to limit js as much as a can.  This helps prevent future conflicts. Especially when it can be done another way, why go js when its not necessary.  That is where the core of my statement was from, my own experience.  :)


:)  Im sure DS probably wont agree with me, but that is ok, i dont expect him to agree with me on everything.  :)

« Last Edit: 17 Dec 2023, 01:05:40 am by durangod »

Jason Knight

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #3 on: 17 Dec 2023, 02:21:47 am »
Your bit about "moving SQL" is utter nonsense. Fear mongering nonsense built on career educator programming advice. The only reason I'd separate it out isto objects as you describe is for multi-language support. In fact, most implementations that do the separation you suggest end up bloated and slow with function/method calls for nothing, wasting memory making complete copies of the result set instead of sanely iterating one row at a time, etc, etm.

That said, the markup is outdated trash... but a lot of that comes from it having NOT seen a real update in 15 years. I should know, I've been using it since ~2002. Even so it makes phpBB look like dinosaur dung.

I don't expect that to change despite their claims to the contrary with their dipshit use of jQuery and most web developers general lack of giving a shit about the quality of their work. Particularly since they've been promising a modernized 3.0 for over a decade now, but continue to slop out the same broken bloated HTML and CSS.

The camelCase thing? Originally SMF used both, and there are telltales of it as it follows an early PHP practice of underscores for sections/subsections and camelCase for names.

template_categoryRow() == categoryRow.template.php

This was used in the code, so it was used for the filenames. So long as you keep it straight, I'm not sure what the objection is. It's a convention I use myself and have used without worry for decades; even in other languages.

That said having come up on the Microcomputer side of the big iron divide and starting out with Wirth familiy programming languages (Pascal, Modula 2, ADA) I absolutely HATE case sensitive languages and filesystems.

The JavaScript thing I was fine with back when they used only 30k of the stuff as vanilla... but recent versions have really soured me since they were SUCKERED into the mental-huffing-midgetry of jQuery and then ended up using as much if not more code than they'd have had without it.

That's my biggest complaint, the jQuery bloat and incompetence that was only recently (five or six years ago) added. It did them no favors, apart from opening the door to developers who have no business working on the front-end to begin with.

That said it still gracefully degrades to work without JS just fine, so I'm not sure what your objection is in terms of "undesired conflicts" or whatever.

And really when SMF 2.0 first dropped well over a decade ago, 90% of the stuff we don't use JS for anymore we still had to use JS for.

I'm not a fan of "modules" beyond stuff like spam blocking. If the forum itself lacks the functionality to... well... be a forums, it is unlikely in my mind adding mods is a good idea. Particularly given how often they can neuter your upgrade path and open up security holes.

See Turdpress' SVN for proof enough of that. Prior to version 3.0 90% of its vulnerabilies were in the system itself. Since then 99% of the vulnerabilities are in mods/plugins created by random schmucks and installed by people who need to learn to keep it in their pants.
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durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #4 on: 17 Dec 2023, 03:17:55 am »
As always i respect and thank you for your insite and technical knowledge. 

With regard to the sql queries inside the core files, i have been told that since i first started messing with PHP to never put them in core files.   If you say it's  hooey-bolooey, then i stand corrected.

I know the facts are the facts but even with the standards they have now, hardly anyone follows them anyway.  I see so many different things in files that make me ask "why did they do it that way" many times its because standard or no standard, php is flexible enough to accept it so they just "do it that way because they can".   

I totally understand that many times i am wrong on my approach but when it comes to syntax i always try to abide by "if i am going to use it i want to use it correctly to the best of my knowledge.

Many times its little stuff that annoys me, like  opening and closing php inside the file (which is ok to a point" but then they just leave off the last close php only because they can, that bugs me for some reason.   I think why not close it, you closed all the other ones.  I do understand that if php is all that is inside a file you dont have to close it.   But i still feel if your going to open it then close it. 

Another one is when they put comments inside a php echo shortcut like

Code: [Select]

<?=  /* this is a stupid comment lol */   $value ; ?>


or when they leave off the semi colon before the closing php just because they can

Code: [Select]

<?=  /* this is a stupid comment lol */   $value  ?>


If everyone is just going to follow the "just because i can" rule of thumb, then why do we even have standards.   And i am not actually talking about official php standards,  because im sure that php may not even care if the semi colon is there or not.    I am talking about the syntax that real world every day professionals, weekenders, novices, and old schoolers use in their code.    Why cant we all just follow some basic guidelines and do it all the same way?

I only have two modules and that is because i needed them.  The developer is the same developer that did my theme and he seems very savy and keeps his stuff updated.

I have:

Topic solved - which lets people mark the topic solved.

custom.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=4339

and

country flags

custom.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=417

which i may remove because since i only allow english language then it sort of becomes a moot point.

I have two avatar packages as well just because i am trying to eventually have enough onsite images that i can turn off uploading avatars all together.   I have scanned all the flags and all the avatars and they appear to be safe to use.  I also removed the sexually explicit ones of Lara Croft.  I would like to find some of Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man which is one of my favorite movies...


« Last Edit: 17 Dec 2023, 03:32:02 am by durangod »

durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #5 on: 17 Dec 2023, 10:40:44 pm »
I dont know why all that stuff bothered me yesterday.  I was annoyed at everything lol...

But DS you have an old version of SMF... they have released multiple updates over the last year.  Where did you get 15 years from ?  Or maybe i should ask, what is a "real update" to you.. :)

One thing i dont like is they dont seem to give a rats butt about the quality of their modules.. They say they have a good approval process but then they let everything go to crap on the back end with lack of support from the devs that wrote them.  And the mere mention of ways to improve it gets you smacked upside the head with a big fat "no way no how"  reply and feeling bad for the poor mod devs that have other jobs and so they cant attend to their own mess.    Ok i am getting excited again, i better stop lol

durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #6 on: 18 Dec 2023, 02:04:06 am »
DS how would you go about posting a bbcode CODE example on these forums. 

I tried html in source (here i remove the brackets to show you how i tried.

pre
code
bbcode CODE
the code you want to show
bbcode CODE close
code close
pre close

even enabled basic html and the pre bbcode

and i tried several different ways and it wont post it correctly... any ideas or suggestions?

durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #7 on: 18 Dec 2023, 08:34:20 am »
I got it.... there is a bbcode called nobbc  wrap the code inside of a nobbc and bamo... perfect  :)   never heard of the nobbc one before.

durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #8 on: 21 Dec 2023, 09:50:57 am »
I cant believe they dont even support mb4 yet.... wow so sad...

coothead

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #9 on: 21 Dec 2023, 01:47:54 pm »

What is mb4?

coothead
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Jason Knight

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #10 on: 21 Dec 2023, 03:28:01 pm »
What is mb4?
Ditto, never heard of it. Well, I've heard of MB4, but I'm not certain what four mouse buttons have to do with anything. Especially when it's usually mapped to "back"

But then Dave seems to be playing with a lot of stuff I've never wanted or needed in a forums. NOTE that's not a dig. Keeps at it he'll be a bigger master of this than I am.
« Last Edit: 21 Dec 2023, 03:29:57 pm by Jason Knight »
We are all, we are all, we are all FRIENDS! For today we're all brothers, tonight we're all friends. Our moment of peace in a war that never ends.

durangod

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Re: SMF forum software feedback - do you agree
« Reply #11 on: 21 Dec 2023, 04:42:28 pm »
lol i should have been more specific i just assumed you would know... :(  my bad..

utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci    =  mb4   lol

No DS what is going to happen is that i am going to hack this copy up so bad that when a update comes it will take me forever to update it because of all my mods lol..   I just added my GDPR mod to it as well.  I know there are ways to add js files via a library function but i never could figure out the params so i gave up and just hard coded it in place lol....  That is going to bite me one day... but dang it looks soooo good lol

 

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