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Author Topic: Here we go again having to build a new PC  (Read 313 times)

durangod

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Here we go again having to build a new PC
« on: 26 Nov 2023, 06:49:53 pm »
Hi,  in 2015 i purchased all the parts and built what i thought was a completely expandable and upgradeable PC with many of the parts being the latest and greatest.   I was thinking at the time "cool maybe i wont have to do this again for 10 to 15 years".  Now i find myself looking down the barrel of another huge leap for tech, and my CPU does not support windows 11.   Seems of all the choices i had in 2015 i just happen to choose the one CPU that does not support windows 11 at all.  There are 2 or 3 diffenent CPU that i could have chosen at that time that would support windows 11 today, but nope i had to choose the oddball.

And it gets worse, i cant just change over to one of those CPU, oh that would be too easy.  Since i chose this CPU, it does not support the same architecture so i also have to change out the motherboard as well.  Which also means that my GPU may also have to be changed out, hell i might as well just toss everything but the memory, drives, case, powerunit, and CPU fan at this point. 

Here is what i am running now:

Windows 10 Home
Motherboard:  Z170A M5 (ms-7977
CPU  LGA1150 intel Skylake -  i7-6700K  4GHz
Memory   DDR4 16GB in (dimm 2 slot)
GPU Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 Extreme  4GB(better than the 1060 on workbench tests)
GPU onboard  Intel HD graphics 530  1GB
Power Unit  EVGA 750 G2

Running 3 displays and a corsair k70 lux keyboard and a midsize tower unit.

Whats kinda funny is that the lesser i7 CPU at the time and even many of the i5 i believe support windows  11 but my i7 does not....  ::)

Looks like i have 2 years to save up to build a new machine and another $2500 bucks investment since windows 10 end of support is Oct 2025.  i know it will come fast..
« Last Edit: 26 Nov 2023, 07:22:37 pm by durangod »

GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #1 on: 27 Nov 2023, 09:47:39 am »
To fair maybe the TPM wasn't even considered when the original chip architecture was designed.

Can you not install a Linux version with a suitable GUI to suit your needs?
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GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #2 on: 27 Nov 2023, 09:48:15 am »
Hi,  in 2015 i purchased all the parts and built what i thought was a completely expandable and upgradeable PC with many of the parts being the latest and greatest.   I was thinking at the time "cool maybe i wont have to do this again for 10 to 15 years".  Now i find myself looking down the barrel of another huge leap for tech, and my CPU does not support windows 11.   Seems of all the choices i had in 2015 i just happen to choose the one CPU that does not support windows 11 at all.  There are 2 or 3 diffenent CPU that i could have chosen at that time that would support windows 11 today, but nope i had to choose the oddball.

And it gets worse, i cant just change over to one of those CPU, oh that would be too easy.  Since i chose this CPU, it does not support the same architecture so i also have to change out the motherboard as well.  Which also means that my GPU may also have to be changed out, hell i might as well just toss everything but the memory, drives, case, powerunit, and CPU fan at this point. 

Here is what i am running now:

Windows 10 Home
Motherboard:  Z170A M5 (ms-7977
CPU  LGA1150 intel Skylake -  i7-6700K  4GHz
Memory   DDR4 16GB in (dimm 2 slot)
GPU Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 Extreme  4GB(better than the 1060 on workbench tests)
GPU onboard  Intel HD graphics 530  1GB
Power Unit  EVGA 750 G2

Running 3 displays and a corsair k70 lux keyboard and a midsize tower unit.

Whats kinda funny is that the lesser i7 CPU at the time and even many of the i5 i believe support windows  11 but my i7 does not....  ::)

Looks like i have 2 years to save up to build a new machine and another $2500 bucks investment since windows 10 end of support is Oct 2025.  i know it will come fast..
As a side note that would make a good on-site development server?
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benanamen

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #3 on: 27 Nov 2023, 12:30:58 pm »
Lets get to the root of the post. WHY do you think you need to have windows 11? I use win10 on a machine I built in 2012 and have no problems. I also run many virtual machines in VMware Workstation and have no problems.
To save time, let's just assume I am never wrong.

GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #4 on: 27 Nov 2023, 12:56:47 pm »
Lets get to the root of the post. WHY do you think you need to have windows 11? I use win10 on a machine I built in 2012 and have no problems. I also run many virtual machines in VMware Workstation and have no problems.
I also wondered that, but my work rig is a Ryzen 7 5800x… massive over spec’d and I only have it just because…
Trying to learn a new trick to prove old dogs can learn new ones...

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durangod

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #5 on: 27 Nov 2023, 02:34:13 pm »
Because end of life support for windows 10 is oct 2025. 

And that is a awesome idea grumpy, great thinking.   

For drives i have:

500GB sata
1TB external drive SCSI
500GB SSD
1TB sata
150GB SCSI
2TB sata

So yeah i could just install linux OS on it i think, not sure, never done that before on a local box and then it could be a local linux server.

GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #6 on: 27 Nov 2023, 04:27:43 pm »
Because end of life support for windows 10 is oct 2025. 

And that is a awesome idea grumpy, great thinking.   

For drives i have:

500GB sata
1TB external drive SCSI
500GB SSD
1TB sata
150GB SCSI
2TB sata

So yeah i could just install linux OS on it i think, not sure, never done that before on a local box and then it could be a local linux server.
Installing Linux is a breeze now-a-days, making sure it’s secure is another issue though, loads of guides available the biggest one I say now is making sure you disable root log in, changing the default SSH port and also do not use your root user for any applications but there is a lot more to it than that. I have a Linux server at work as a local development server too!
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2023, 02:13:13 am by GrumpyYoungMan »
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durangod

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #7 on: 27 Nov 2023, 07:19:04 pm »
If its like any other server install i think i will be ok, its just installing it on a ex-windows machine is the difference.   I have set up a server with just the OS installed and then added cpanel but have never done the linux OS itself.

Yes sir, i am aware of blocking root from login with ssh and to use a different user for that, but i learned the hard way to be careful and test the new login before you flip the switch on root because once you do and your logged off, if it does not work then your locked out of your own server lol..    They used to just reinstall the OS for me when this happened once or twice on rented servers lol....    But im sure if i have total control of the box itself there are inhouse ways of recovery if that happens.

We will see when the time comes, it will take me awhile to save up the money or ill have to go the CC way of shopping. 


GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #8 on: 28 Nov 2023, 01:52:23 am »
If its like any other server install i think i will be ok, its just installing it on a ex-windows machine is the difference.   I have set up a server with just the OS installed and then added cpanel but have never done the linux OS itself.

Yes sir, i am aware of blocking root from login with ssh and to use a different user for that, but i learned the hard way to be careful and test the new login before you flip the switch on root because once you do and your logged off, if it does not work then your locked out of your own server lol..    They used to just reinstall the OS for me when this happened once or twice on rented servers lol....    But im sure if i have total control of the box itself there are inhouse ways of recovery if that happens.

We will see when the time comes, it will take me awhile to save up the money or ill have to go the CC way of shopping.
Oh yes, I wasn’t going to run through all the steps, especially as I am no expert! But yes, that’s an important step to make sure your new root user and SSH port work before you disable the default 22… 👍🏻

I’m currently running Ubuntu headless…
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2023, 02:14:53 am by GrumpyYoungMan »
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durangod

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #9 on: 28 Nov 2023, 11:19:44 am »
I might need those steps one day lol...   I still have my old centOS server cheatsheet for server commands so it should come back to me once im in there.   I assume its all the same even if linux OS rather than centOS.  I know that Ubuntu makes commands easier but i am like a stick in the mud lol

I guess that means one day ill have to get a power backup  for it as well, if i plan to start some sites on it one day.   Its not needed if its just a dev server but once i let the public in, i think ill need a backup power supply too.   My own mini colocation lol

Jason Knight

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #10 on: 8 Dec 2023, 10:15:05 pm »
Thought I commented on this already... might have not hit submit and lost track of the tab. I am starting to worry senility is setting in.

The very notion of having a computer that you're using for development lasting more than five years is extremely naive. This is an industry where 3 years is obsolete, five years is the scrap heap. It has been that way for four decades, and it's why if you're serious about computing you should have a 3 year rotation plan. By the time anything "small" breaks or any software / desired upgrade is incompatible, you'll end up so incompatible you have to replace motherboard-and-up.

Three years. That's the plan. EVERY three years.

Though I got lucky this last upgrade, I went AMD. Socket AM4 and DDR 4 stayed with us a long, long time, and there is nothing anything better than my current 5800X3D that is worth lighting money on fire for. Funny when this current config started life as a vanilla Ryzen 3600. (prior rig was 4770k)

In that way "sidegrades" can help defer the costs. Like video card upgrades and RAM amounts. DDR4 3600 got so cheap I ended up dropping 128 gigs in this because I could. Just like populating the motherboard NVME slots with 4 gig sticks to where I now have 12tb of Gen 4 SSD's. (to supplement my 36tb of hdd's in the media center / net storage raid)

Given your decade out of date drives, I think you'd be floored by even cheap sub-$600 upgrade. I mean given what you have, a massive jump up -- technically to "last gen" would be:

B450M Motherboard - $70
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-B450M-Promontory-Micro-Motherboard/dp/B09KZYMP8P

Last gen, bargain basement, but rock solid reliable. I don't trust the current gen yet with Intel's dirt-baggery and AMD's teething problems on the new socket. It's why I'm on 5800x3d with no plans to migrate until at least Ryzen 9000.

32gb TimeTec DDR4 3600 - $57
https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-PC4-28800-CL18-22-22-42-Overclocking-Compatible/dp/B0B4M6KLM8

I've found this "who's that" brand to be as good as any of the more expensive options. And at those throughput levels that's 10x faster than your current best SATA SSD's. With less power consumption because NVME / M.2 / PCIe Gen 4 x4 is, well... Just more efficient as there's less wire, protocol, and circuitry between the flash and the system bus.

Ryzen 5700X - $170
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-5700X-16-Thread-Unlocked-Processor/dp/B09VCHQHZ6

The 5700X is a giant steal at that price. And it still leaves room on the table to later go to the 5800x3d if you care about gaming, or 5950x if you need more threads for workstation loads. Either way it will run circles around that Intel 6th gen you have.

And dunno about your electric prices, but in my parts the savings there can add up quick to buying more powerful hardware.

Then to drag your storage out of the dark ages.

4tb NVME SSD - $190
https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-UD90-NVMe-SP04KGBP44UD9005/dp/B0BYN8NHXS

Silicon Power is another "new face" that's been absolutely amazing on price to performance to capacity. They're my new go-to over the past two years and only once (out of two dozen) have I had a bad drive. They shipped me the replacement the moment Amazon return (dropped off at Kohls) was confirmed, had it next day!

In total that's $487 for cpu+mobo+ram+storage. The extra hundred would be for odds and ends like a quality paste (kingpin KPX?), a decent cooler (NH-D12) and maybe a case if you can't fit modern cooling.

And I'd put serious thought into picking up an 8 or 12tb drive or two (RAID?) to replace the rest of those power chewing relics. Again the money you'd save on electricity would offset the cost. Hell even a tiny 6tb exos would negate the need for most of those drives and sets you back maybe $120.

Might also be time to boot up crystalDiskInfo and see how many hours are on those drives and what their smart data looks like. A 4tb I retired back in march had well over 90k hours on it... my 8tb media drive is pushing 45k, so halfway to needing to be replaced since anything over 100k hours I retire to ... my more needy friends.

Unless you care about high end AAA gaming, that GTX 960 is probably more than you need. Or if you wanted to use the leftovers to build a second rig, maybe drop $20 more for a 5700G which has integrated Radeon 11 graphics. Kind of a step sideways on performance, but a good option to save up for a modern graphics card and furhter reduce your power bill.

Especially given the absolute power hogs GTX 9xx was, especially compared to the ten series.

You don't have to do it all at once if your parts are even remotely modern and standardized, even if you're looking at the dreaded CPU swap.

As to Winblows 10's EOL, I have no plans to use Windows 11. Honestly the "security worries" are mostly BS these days if you simply don't use pirated software, don't open e-mail attachments, and don't use IE. Most of the big exploits of the past decade require PHYSICAL access or exploits poor user habits. That's why even a patched up XP install can be shockingly secure. And why it's a shame most browser makers have dropped XP and even Win7 support.

When the time comes maybe windows 12 will put back all the things 11 shit on the same way 8.1 and 10 fixed windows 8's suckitude, maybe Linux will finally be mature enough to be used as a desktop OS (don't count on it)... but for now the "looming" end of windows 10 support does NOT have me looking for alternatives.

If nothing else we might get community patches like the so-called XP SP3 "Lite" that are better than anything M$ ever did.

'cause as it sits right now, Windows 11 is utter garbage without tons of third party supplements. But what do I know? I use 7 task tweaker and Open-shell on Win10 to drag winblows 10 back into being useful.

I should probably sit down with 11 in a VM and see if there are enough third party tools to return the useful taskbar, useful start, useful "snap", and so forth. Hell, 90% of the reason I won't use 11 is the taskbar stuck at the bottom.
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Jason Knight

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #11 on: 8 Dec 2023, 10:21:39 pm »
Installing Linux is a breeze now-a-days
Shame it's still crippleware as a desktop OS with shitty font kerning, broken laggy audio stacks, the need to drop to the command line just to get some hardware to even wake from sleep on laptops, and a dearth of quality desktop software leaning one to run everything useful under Wine.

For desktop tasks you might as well be suggesting Windows 3.1 with Calmira.
We are all, we are all, we are all FRIENDS! For today we're all brothers, tonight we're all friends. Our moment of peace in a war that never ends.

GrumpyYoungMan

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #12 on: 9 Dec 2023, 05:13:01 am »
Installing Linux is a breeze now-a-days
Shame it's still crippleware as a desktop OS with shitty font kerning, broken laggy audio stacks, the need to drop to the command line just to get some hardware to even wake from sleep on laptops, and a dearth of quality desktop software leaning one to run everything useful under Wine.

For desktop tasks you might as well be suggesting Windows 3.1 with Calmira.
💯 the Linux GUI is AWFUL.
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durangod

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Re: Here we go again having to build a new PC
« Reply #13 on: 9 Dec 2023, 07:57:31 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions on upgrading. I also have a cpu cooler i forgot to include in my computer specs, i forgot what kind it is, ill have to see if i can find some info on the unit.  Its not listed in my device listing so ill have to get info directly from the unit itself.  So i may not have to buy a new cooler for it.   

I am glad to see its not going to be as expensive as i thought and i can do it alittle at a time....

Thanks again for your time in the reply, great info....   :)

 

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